Cologne Cathedral Dean calls for openness and dialogue in Churches on the occasion of the biggest Pride demo in Europe

"Bringing the Good News to All"

The largest demonstration for queer people in Europe is being celebrated in Cologne on Christopher Street Day. Rainbow flags were torn down from some Catholic churches in the run-up. City Dean Robert Kleine calls for more openness.

DOMRADIO.DE: In the run-up to Christopher Street Day (CSD) this weekend, there were some unpleasant incidents in Cologne. Rainbow flags were torn down from Catholic churches. How do you perceive such events?

Monsignor Robert Kleine (Cologne City and Cathedral Dean): Of course, this concerns me because it's about intolerance. I don't have to approve of everything, but I have to accept that people have rights and stand up for those rights. This is what this so-called rainbow flag stands for. The parishes that fly these flags want to show that they accept people as they are and that no one is excluded because of their sexual orientation.

I think this is actually something we as the Catholic Church support: that everyone is loved by God and that no one should be discriminated against. If this flag is understood as a symbol of non-discrimination, but of tolerance, and it is torn down, it affects me.

DOMRADIO.DE: Last year, the Catholic Church participated in a panel discussion prior to the Pride parade. You also participated in the "God Meets Gays" format. In what form is the Catholic Church present at Pride this time?

Kleine: There are youth activities at the parade. The issue of queer people and homosexuality must be considered in particular. We have church doctrine that says marriage is only between a man and a woman. We are familiar with the discussions about questions of moral theology and the question of whether this doctrine can be changed. That was also a topic on the Synodal Path.

Robert Kleine "I cannot deny that people love each other and that God loves them."

It is clear that the doctrine does not provide for this, and that sexuality between a man and a woman is what the Church approves. Since Pope Francis, same-sex couples can also be "approved" (from "benedicere = to bless"). Not in the sacramental realm, nor in a liturgical, church ceremony, but rather "en passant" (in passing, ed.).

I can't deny that people love each other and that God loves them. How one's own sexuality is demonstrated and presented is another matter. Tomorrow's parade represents that. I've had some questions about that. But fundamentally, we should consider how the church deals with queer people pastorally.

There are so many who are involved in our congregations and contribute to the life of the church. It's completely natural for me that we engage in dialogue and that we spread our good news to all people.

DOMRADIO.DE: Many accuse the Catholic Church of not reaching out to queer people. Nothing changes. What do you say to these people?

Kleine: The Church is moving in small steps, and we must remember that we are a global Church. Here in Western Europe, a lot is possible from the perspective of tolerance, for example, same-sex marriage in our country, which is permitted by the state.

I look to Poland, where things are different, and then to Africa, where a completely different understanding exists. The church must establish rules and represent its teachings everywhere. That's a balancing act, and I believe that Pope Francis has already taken a big step with this small opening.

It is important to me that we as a church are open and enter into dialogue. But sometimes this also happens in a quiet way. We don't celebrate a service just for queer people, as is perhaps the case in Protestant churches this weekend. But of course they have a place in our churches. My aim is to show that no one is marginalised.

Robert Kleine "I believe that Pope Francis has already taken a big step with this small opening."

Christopher Street Day is essentially a demonstration in favour of freedom and equality and against homophobia. Of course, there are also representations that I don't like. Because I always think that love between two people and sexuality between people is something intimate that I don't want to publicise too much. There are also forms that are about submissiveness, which I really can't do anything with.

The important thing for me is that the Church, and the Catholic Church in particular, must show itself. That it does not exclude anyone, but that it is in dialogue and that this message that God loves people and has created every human being does not exclude anyone.

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