How the Church Can Become a Safe Space for Queer People, Queer Synodalist Catholic: "For us, Francis was the best Pope in history"

The social climate toward queer people is becoming more hostile, says Hendrik Johannemann. In an interview with katholisch.de, the co-spokesperson of the Catholic LGBT+ Committee explains where he sees positive developments in the Church and what he hopes for from Pope Leo XIV.

Due to numerous hostilities, organisers had to increase security measures at Christopher Street Day events this year. And queer people aren't the only ones feeling the pushback there. In an interview with katholisch.de, Hendrik Johannemann, co-spokesperson for the Catholic LGBT+ Committee, talks about safe spaces in the Catholic Church and his assessment of the pontificate of Pope Francis.

Question: Mr. Johannemann, how do you currently perceive the social climate toward queer people in Germany?

Johannemann: I perceive the climate to be significantly more hostile than it was a few years ago. If it becomes standard practice at Christopher Street Day events to be threatened by right-wing mobs or even have to be canceled because of them, then something is seriously wrong. And if you look at surveys, it seems that anti-queer narratives, which have been aggressively introduced into the discourse by right-wing populist actors in recent years and, unfortunately, also partially fueled by church actors, are particularly catching on among young men.

Question: Can the Church, in principle, act as a safe space for queer people?

Johannemann: I see it as very positive that a lot has happened in many areas of the Catholic Church in Germany. The youth organizations have become wonderful safe spaces for queer believers in recent years, and the Central Committee of German Catholics (ZdK) has also developed into a reliable ally – both within the church and in society as a whole and politically. The fact that blessings for couples who love each other have been officially possible in Germany since the spring, and apparently even with the approval of the Vatican, is a quantum leap in our church. This should be discussed much more.

Hendrik Johannemann is part of the online delegation for the European leg of the World Synod and an advisor to the Synodal Path.

Hendrik Johannemann says that anti-queer statements do not win sympathy for the Church, but rather drive more and more people to leave. "That makes me very sad, because our Good News offers so much potential for people."

Question: Are there any dark sides?

Johannemann: Some people within the Church continue to directly or indirectly exclude and devalue queer people. A recent example is the ban on queer symbols at the opening of the new Catholic education campus in Cologne, where an official from the archdiocese reportedly described the rainbow flag as a symbol of struggle against the Catholic Church. Instead of addressing real church problems such as addressing abuse, the priest shortage, or even homophobia within the church, they prefer to reverse the perpetrator-victim divide, build a scapegoat, and create a threat that doesn't actually exist. Often, dubious truths of faith are cited that are theologically questionable. All of this is a shame for our church.

Question: In what way?

Johannemann: These statements give not only queer people, but also people throughout society, the impression that this is the true face of the Catholic Church. Homophobia, however, doesn't win sympathy as a church; it only drives more and more people out of the church. This makes me very sad, because our Good News offers so much potential for people.

Question: What about you personally: Are you afraid of appearing openly as a gay Catholic in church congregations?

Johannemann: Through my involvement with the Synodal Path, but also with the "Out In Church" campaign, I'm probably not completely unknown in the church sphere. So, I probably couldn't hide even if I wanted to. However, I consciously seek out church spaces where I know I won't be met with hostility. And even in a city like Berlin, where I live and which is generally considered open and diverse, there are conservative priests or parish leaders in many places, where I've personally experienced that people don't really feel comfortable with some sermons.

A turning point on the Synodal Path of the Church in Germany: Following the bishops' rejection of the basic text on Catholic sexual morality in September 2022, members of the Synodal Assembly gathered to protest. The lack of theological arguments is still noticeable today, says Hendrik Johannemann, who was involved in drafting the text as an advisor to the Sexual Morality Forum.

Question: What would have to change for queer believers to feel welcomed in all parishes?

Johannemann: For example, I think it would be a wonderful idea if parishes would openly state on their websites that they are queer-friendly and that everyone is welcome. In Austria, there is currently an initiative that certifies parishes and other church institutions if they are queer-friendly. That would certainly serve as a model for Germany as well.

Question: Is there a difference of opinion between the Church in Germany and the Vatican on this issue?

Johannemann: I have the impression that there has been quite a rapprochement here in recent years – precisely because bishops and representatives of the Central and Eastern European Churches (ZdK) have traveled to Rome and promoted the positions of the Synodal Path. This apparently made those in charge in Rome realize that in Germany, they don't actually want to destroy our Church, but rather make a positive contribution to unity in diversity. Nevertheless, I believe that there are still forces in the Vatican, some of which are also active in Germany, that adhere to a certain anti-queer ideology.

Question: You were an advisor to the Synodal Path's Sexual Morality Forum and also participated in the synodal assemblies. What role does it play in this context that the basic text of your forum is the only one not adopted by the Synodal Path?

Johannemann: We notice the severe lack of theological arguments on this issue, which also became clear in the synodal assemblies. Therefore, we wanted to adopt a different perspective on sexuality and gender – without this approach being too radical. However, some participants didn't seem to be ready for that yet. Nevertheless, the text is out there, and I hope that it will once again be heard more widely in one way or another – in the Vatican, but also in Germany. This fear-mongering surrounding sexuality is a major problem in our church, especially with regard to cases of sexual violence and their cover-ups. If we don't address this issue, I'm very worried that in the near or medium term, we will continue to have problems with priests who are struggling with their sexuality.

"Pope Francis was also a pope of ambivalence." — Quote: Hendrik Johannemann

Question: The late Pope Francis repeatedly warned against a "gender ideology." At the same time, phrases like "Who am I to condemn it?" or "The Church is a Church for all" are associated with him. As a queer Catholic, what is your assessment of this pontificate?

Johannemann: For queer people, Pope Francis was probably the best pope we've ever had. With his pastoral approach, he initiated a number of changes, especially for homosexual people, and he was the first to proactively reach out to queer people. One achievement, for example, is his unequivocal rejection of the criminalization and state persecution of homosexual people, which was also enshrined in the declaration "Dignitas Infinita." But Pope Francis was also a pope of ambivalence.

Question: What do you mean by that?

Johannemann: You mentioned his warning against a supposed "gender ideology." Despite his pastoral approach, he blatantly excluded transgender and intersex people in particular. They were not granted "infinite dignity" – which "Dignitas infinita" translates as. Such statements then provide supposedly Christian arguments for forces in our society that threaten human rights and democracy. The Church makes itself untrustworthy when, on the one hand, it condemns right-wing populism and ethnic nationalism in a very commendable way, but, on the other hand, fuels the exclusion of transgender and intersex people, just like right-wing populists. Transgender and intersex people are also part of God's good creation. The Catholic Church must finally recognize this if it takes its fundamental beliefs seriously.

Question: What do you hope for from Pope Leo XIV?

Johannemann: If I were to set the bar low, I would say: I hope that the positive things Francis has initiated will continue, and that blessings, for example, will continue to be permitted. And yet, of course, I wish for more. I hope that the Vatican will finally seriously consider the resolutions of the Synodal Path, especially those concerning the doctrinal re-evaluation of homosexuality and gender diversity. And I hope that the Pope and the Vatican will finally show themselves open to new ideas on gender issues. In the past, the Vatican has always only referred to itself on these issues and ignored other scientific findings. The Vatican must become more open in this regard.

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