Cardinal - "Nationalisms and totalitarianisms are destroying humanity". Synod as a panacea for all evil. Soon modernist clerics won't have any laity to synodalise with.

Nationalisms and totalitarianisms are destroying humanity

A Christian cannot be a nationalist. He belongs to one country, one homeland, but this must never become hostility, because others are also our neighbors... Unfortunately, nationalisms and sovereignisms are fueling the problem of migrants and turning it into an ideological issue, distorting it.

As an envoy of Pope Leo XIV, Archbishop of Bologna and President of the Italian Bishops' Conference Cardinal Matteo Zuppi was in Rijeka (in Italian Fiume) on June 13 and 14 to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the founding of the diocese with its headquarters in Rijeka. After the evening of June 13th in the Rijeka Cathedral, we caught precious minutes to talk with this Italian cardinal of world outlook, Pope Francis' special envoy for peace, protector of the weakest and the poor, who was in the inner circle of candidates for the election of the new pope because he is thinking not only about the Church in Italy or Europe but also about the mission of the Church in humanity.

You have been Pope Francis' representative in numerous diplomatic missions to achieve peace in war-torn areas. While you were preparing for the trip from Bologna to Rijeka, a new escalation occurred between Israel and Iran. How do you comment on the latest developments in the situation?

War is always a defeat. The appeal that Pope Leo made is completely opposite to what is happening because he calls for an end to the war, for dialogue, for looking each other in the eye. He used a very beautiful expression: "Come here and look each other in the eye." This means having confidence that dialogue can resolve what divides us. What happened last night between Israel and Iran is a cause for great concern. I share the words of Patriarch Pizzaballa, who expressed great suffering and also rejection of what is happening in the Gaza Strip. If I am not mistaken, he used a very strong expression: what is happening is unthinkable and unacceptable. We must help, we must try to do everything to stop this, to find ways to build bridges. War only raises walls and graves, multiplies problems and creates even greater difficulties for living together.

You came to Rijeka to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the Diocese, which was founded as a local Church composed of three peoples – Croats, Italians and Slovenes. So, it is about coexistence between peoples and Christianity, which should unite everyone. But the historical experience of the 20th century was difficult – and for everyone. A little while ago, at Vespers, you mentioned reconciled memory. How to achieve reconciled memory?

Reconciled memory can be achieved by fighting against what turns differences into hostility. To a large extent, these are nationalisms – nationalisms and totalitarianisms have destroyed coexistence. We must build a stronger coexistence. Differences should not be erased, but rather we must learn to live together. We must fight the “virus” that makes it impossible to live together. This is the history of humanity, ever since the first brothers – Cain and Abel. There, the virus was that one person thought that what others possessed took something away from him. And he followed his instinct – as did Joseph’s brothers, who could not accept the diversity of their younger brother’s dreams and no longer knew how to speak to him in a friendly manner. That is why Christians have a great responsibility – because they are called to recognize their neighbor in others. A Christian cannot be a nationalist. He belongs to one country, one homeland, but this must never become hostility, because others are also our neighbors.

The Church often condemned those who distanced themselves and did not know how to understand the questions they asked it. On the contrary, we must understand the questions that many ask the Church, even when they distance themselves from it. The Church lives in the world and, as the Council said, everything that is human belongs to the Church, and all the hopes and joys, hopes and anxieties of people are also the hopes and anxieties of the Church. Unfortunately, many have experienced the Church as distant, absent, indifferent, for example to injustice and inequality.

When we compare the city where you are Archbishop, Bologna, with Rijeka, then there is one similarity, and that is the social issue. Sometimes people who during the 20th century advocated for social justice in the world felt that this was not compatible with the Church, that is, that Christianity was on the other side, with the result that a large number of people abandoned the practice of the faith, there is even talk of a mass apostasy during the 20th century. What lesson can we draw as the Church and as Catholics?

The Church often condemned those who distanced themselves and did not know how to understand the questions they asked it. On the contrary, we must understand the questions that many ask the Church, even when they are moving away from it. The Church lives in the world and, as the Council said, everything that is human belongs to the Church, and all the hopes and joys, hopes and anxieties of people are also the hopes and anxieties of the Church. Unfortunately, many have experienced the Church as distant, absent, indifferent, for example to injustice and inequality.

And the fight for justice belongs precisely to the Church – this is what the Social Doctrine of the Church urges. Perhaps that is why we need a Church that will be even more present in the midst of the world’s difficulties and that will know how to create alliances in order to offer some solutions. It seems to me that the vision of Pope Francis’ encyclical Fratelli tutti represents a starting point that can unite people: the beginning of a common vision and a common effort of believers of different religions and of all humanity – what Paul VI would call “people of good will” – because we only have one home that we must defend from exploitation and in which we must learn to live together. That is why Fratelli tutti is this great vision that we can share with those who are far away, with those who have not found an answer in the Church, but that vision certainly brings us back to many brothers and sisters.

Diversity should not be erased, but rather we should learn to live together. We need to fight against the “viruses” that make living together impossible. This has been the history of humanity, ever since the first brothers – Cain and Abel.

You have long been involved in Italy with the Community of Sant’Egidio, known for its ecumenism, peace-building work and, in recent years, for the humanitarian corridors through which thousands of refugees have arrived in Italy and have been welcomed by parish communities. In Croatia, the Jesuit Refugee Service is trying to help refugees on the same principle, but the local civil authorities – the Ministries of the Interior and Foreign Affairs – have shown no interest in such an initiative. In addition, Croatia is unfortunately known for the harsh actions of its border police. How can the Church get involved in changing this state of affairs and this situation?

The Church has a duty that comes from the Gospel: I was a stranger and you welcomed me. So this is not something optional but part of what it means to be a Christian. We are facing an epochal phenomenon and it is necessary to reconcile the safety of those who become strangers out of necessity with the safety of those who welcome them. We believe that humanity is not a luxury or something for the chosen ones; Acting humanely will help us find solutions to regulate this phenomenon, which has always existed in the Mediterranean and around the world. Migration and population movements have always existed. They cause great fear in us, but ultimately we must learn to manage them together. Europe has a great responsibility to face them together.

Unfortunately, nationalisms and sovereignisms are fueling this problem and turning it into an ideological issue, distorting it. Let's take the example of Italy: Italy needs foreigners. It is one of the countries in Europe with the lowest birth rate, so many companies cannot find workers. It is about a way of managing this issue that, in a broad vision, should be resolved in a way that gives security to both those who come and those who receive them. Humanitarian corridors are one of these solutions. There are also work corridors. For example, a large hospital does not know how to solve the shortage of nurses and has to look for them elsewhere. Therefore, we need to combine the needs of those who are looking for a future, because they do not have one in their homeland, and the needs of those who receive them. This requires clarity, rules and vision, not just fear mongering. Fear does not allow for rational thinking; fear is always a bad advisor. You think you will find security that way, but in fact you are building a prison for yourself.

In countries like ours, Croatia, where religion was banished from the public sphere during communism, today in democracy this presence brings new challenges — not the least of which is the misuse of religion for political purposes and the instrumentalization of Christianity, which ultimately turns out to be counter-evidence. How to deal with this problem?

The Church does not conduct politics and does not enter into elections that concern the “polis” (city/state). It reminds everyone why this should be done and what should be at the center of life and civil society – the person. Respect for every person, the defense of life always – from beginning to end, and in everything in between. It is not just about the beginning and end of life.

Then comes the responsibility of Christians to translate this into service to the common good. I also hope that the wonderful thing called the Social Doctrine of the Church – which means the Church’s view of life together, of respect for everyone – will be present. I believe that many Christians will be needed to commit themselves to this and I think it is a great challenge, because otherwise politics becomes something that only interests a few or the centrality of the person is lost sight of.

How to get to a Synodal Church? We can testify that there is much resistance – here and elsewhere. What would you say to those who oppose the vision of a Synodal Church?

The Church is Synodal. This term was chosen to express the idea of ​​“walking together”. The Church is synodal by its very nature. It is about giving form to how to walk together and how the Church is not only vertical, but also horizontal. It is not just about, say, hierarchy. Hierarchy needs the people; it needs the responsibility of the community.

This is a reality that is already occurring in many parts of Europe, for example: many parishes no longer have priests, but this does not mean that communities do not exist. The question arises as to how this responsibility is expressed, what is the responsibility of the different ministries and tasks in this. Synodality has always existed. Synodality has had different forms, and today we must find forms that are possible and necessary so that the Church can continue its journey. Otherwise, there is a risk that the Church will remain immobile or that there will be only a vertical dimension that does not help the horizontal one. And the horizontal dimension does not diminish the vertical one – on the contrary, it gives it meaning. The ministry of holy orders finds its charisms and its gift in communion and in synodality.

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Attendance at the Mass, which was thick with Bishops, was a bit thin.  Soon modernist clerics won't have any laity to synodalise with.