Rector of Heiligenkreuz College in Austria demolishes Synodal Path

Interview with Wolfgang Klausnitzer - new Rector of the Heiligenkreuz College

Maria 1.0: Thank you very much for taking the time to talk to Maria 1.0 about your work at the Phil.-Theol. College of Heiligenkreuz Benedikt XVI and about theological education.

Please introduce yourself briefly. How did you perceive God's call to the priesthood? Why did you become a fundamental theologian?

Klausnitzer: My name is Wolfgang Klausnitzer, I have been a priest of the Archdiocese of Bamberg since 1976, was Subregens in Bamberg from 1981 to 1989 and Regens of the Seminary from 1989 to 1994, and then worked as a Professor of Fundamental Theology at the Catholic Theological Faculty in Bamberg and Würzburg until 2016. Since then, I have been a member of the governing body of the Benedict XVI Heiligenkreuz College of Philosophy and Theology as Dean of Research and now as Rector.

In my youth work as an altar boy, scout and member of the Marian Congregation and in religious education, I had the good fortune and grace to experience very good priests, especially from the Society of Jesus (SJ), who spoke to me about my vocation and encouraged me to do so. I became a fundamental theologian because the professor at the Faculty of Theology in Innsbruck, where I studied, who fascinated me most humanly and theologically-intellectually, the Jesuit Fr Walter Kein, was himself a fundamental theologian. With him I was an assistant and he initiated and accompanied my doctorate and habilitation.

Maria 1.0: Rector Klausnitzer, you have been the new Rector of the Heiligenkreuz College since the beginning of 2023. Could you please briefly introduce the College? How do you feel about being the first non-Cistercian of this university? What are your tasks?

Klausnitzer: The university is an academic institute that is state-recognised and subordinate to the Roman Dicastery for Culture and Education and is supported by the Order of Cistercians in the form of the Abbey of Heiligenkreuz near Vienna, founded in 1133. Within the German-speaking world, it is the teaching institution with the most candidates for the priesthood as students. In addition, there are students who are preparing for another ecclesiastical profession or for the ministry of preaching the Gospel. Although I am not a Cistercian, I feel very much at home in the Cistercian community. I also see myself as a "transitional rector" for the Cistercian rectors who follow. According to the statutes, the rector leads the university and represents it externally and is also the supervisor of all members of the teaching staff and the other employees of the university. He also conducts the admission interviews with the students.

Maria 1.0: You have been a Professor of Fundamental Theology at Heiligenkreuz since 1987, and from 1994 to 2016 you were a Professor at the Faculty of the Otto Friedrich University of Bamberg and at the University of Würzburg respectively. How does the private Heiligenkreuz College differ specifically from the state universities in Catholic specialist theology?

Klausnitzer: The Heiligenkreuz College has more the quality of a campus. The students live for the most part in student houses nearby, take part in liturgical celebrations and services and have the opportunity to consult the priests and religious working at the university on spiritual questions. In terms of teaching, I see the difference in the fact that in Heiligenkreuz it tends to be more Catholic-teaching. In research, however, we have a deficit. In my opinion, some professors should publish more.

Maria 1.0: What is your balance of teaching at a state and private theological faculty and what are the differences?

Klausnitzer: In the two state theological faculties where I worked, there were definitely factions in the professorial college, e.g. a more "liberal-progressive" group and a "traditional-conservative" current. The students then always had to decide and also consider beforehand what they were allowed to say in examinations, for example. This grouping does not exist in Heiligenkreuz in the professorial college. In the two state faculties there was also hardly any intensive exchange between colleagues outside their respective "party". Human-spiritual conversations between the professor and individual students were also very rare there (in contrast to Heiligenkreuz).

Maria 1.0: How did you experience your studies at that time and how has it changed for theology students today, rather for the positive or negative?

Klausnitzer:The time of my studies (between 1970 and 1978) was marked by the unrest of the 68 generation. This was evident in the questioning of the authority of professors and the tradition as a whole, in frighteningly chaotic self-made church services, in decidedly unruly lectures disrupted by sit-ins or microphone occupations, and in the criticism of every professor who even tried to interpret a Roman position at least positively, let alone defend it. However, there were great and important theologians at that time who were also respected outside Germany. In my impression, German theology in its majority no longer plays a major role in the universal Church today. In Heiligenkreuz we attach importance to the students getting to know the thinking and the books of the great theological authors of the history of theology and also taking note of them in their reading. We professors see that as our task. I am not quite sure that all students have understood that the first and most important task of the student is to study.

Maria 1.0: As a professor, what developments or changes have you noticed within the academic field of specialist theology over the decades at universities?

Klausnitzer: In my opinion, there used to be more standard works of theology (e.g. "Introduction to Christianity", "Basic Course in Faith", "Jesus the Christ", "Catholic Dogmatics", etc.) in which fundamental things were said about Christianity or faith. Today's authors rather affirm themselves with historical topics ("The Concept of Grace in Augustine", "The Development of the Dogmas of Mary") or with structural questions of the Catholic Church, which are important, but at best perhaps of interest to Catholic insiders or technical experts.

Maria 1.0: Due to the detachment of faith within society, the question naturally arises as to whether the study of theology still has any relevance at all in this day and age. What do you think about this?

Klausnitzer: Why should it have no relevance if you ask the question whether God exists and what his existence and revelation mean for the life of the individual human being? In Catholic theology, people have been thinking about God, revelation, the image of man, an ethically correct life, forms of communal life (from marriage to society in general) for about 2000 years. We have seen in the atheistic totalitarian systems of the 20th century what dead ends states end up in when they pursue this question of God or religion. The state in the German-speaking world is currently trying to domesticate Islam by giving it a place in universities and schools. We Christians founded these universities and schools in the history of Europe. Why should we voluntarily give up the ancestral place of theology, its birthright, as it were, there? In my time as a professor at state universities, I have not experienced a single colleague from non-theological faculties who has said to me that the study of theology has no justification at university. Quite the opposite!

Maria 1.0: How can we prevent or counteract the irrelevance of theology at universities and in society? Is one possible solution to adapt to the spirit of the times, or is scientific knowledge only gained by constantly reorienting oneself to the present?

Klausnitzer:Then it would really become meaningless. A science becomes interesting when it knows the wrong paths and the triumphs of its own history, when it critically analyses social plausibilities, when it illuminates connections and dead ends of thought from the knowledge of its own development, in short, when it just doesn't say what "one" (in the sense of Heidegger, who speaks of the "man" mentality, in which everyone says what everyone else says) thinks or says, so that this "mass thinker" is contradicted even with good reasons.

Maria 1.0: You are not only a professor, but also presided as Regens of the Bamberg seminary from 1989 to 1994. How did you experience this time? How has priestly formation developed compared to today? Is there anything that needs to be changed?

Klausnitzer: The main difference is that seminaries in Central and Western Europe are usually emptier today than they were in the 1970s and 1980s. In the Regents' Conference of that time, we took the view that a seminary with about 5-6 year groups would need to have about 50 alumni to be viable. Seminarians need peers to be able to make friends and exchange ideas. Priestly formation today gives quite a lot of space to social pedagogy and psychology. We sometimes forget that in the Christian tradition we have a good treasure of experiences of spiritual accompaniment and Christian leadership, which we should also use. In any case, we need to organise the seminars again in such a way that there are spiritually viable (i.e. not too small in numbers) communities - even if we combine "small" seminars with others. Large numbers are not everything (and may be viewed sceptically in the Bible), but too small numbers are more likely to frustrate a seeking candidate and also make it difficult to integrate extreme positions from all camps.

Maria 1.0: To be ordained as a priest, one actually needs a degree in theology. Would you say that candidates for the priesthood still need academic studies at all, since the general level of faith among the laity has fallen sharply and at the same time disinterest in the faith is increasing?

Klausnitzer: I don't think that we will increase interest in Christianity if we lower the intellectual and theological level of the preachers of the Gospel (and these are not insignificantly the preaching priests). Rather, I think that in the situation described, we would have to train the alumni even better in academic theology.

Maria 1.0: As you know, the last Synodal Assembly met in Frankfurt am Main from 09 to 11 March 2023. What do you say to the fact that no seminarian was represented at the entire Synodal Assembly? Are seminarians still needed at all, since in the future one would like to introduce the diaconate for women and later even ordination to the priesthood for women?

Klausnitzer: I would prefer not to say anything about the Frankfurt Synod. I think that in the opaque selection of its synod members, in its organisational structure, in the undemocratic interventions on the Rules of Procedure by the Presidium, in the "argumentations", which in each case expressed feelings and not theological reasons, and in general in the "votes" adopted, in which I find it difficult to discover any meaningful theology, it is a disaster and truly not a glorious event in the history of the Catholic Church in Germany. To quote Nestroy: One should not even ignore it.

Maria 1.0:Furthermore, the loci theologici, i.e. the places of theological knowledge, had been expanded, in that now the people concerned were also consulted as a source of faith. What do you say to this as a fundamental theologian and dogmatist?

Klausnitzer: According to Melchior Cano, there are ten "loci theologici", i.e. places of theological knowledge. Fundamental are the only two sources of revelation, Scripture and Tradition. All the other eight (e.g. patristics, magisterium, councils, theology, later also reason and history) interpret the first two and bring no new revelation.

Maria 1.0:Do you think that a renewal or redefinition of the concept of anthropology is needed to respond to the current situation of "gender ideology" and human autonomy?

Klausnitzer:No! According to surveys, the overwhelming majority of Germans (and, incidentally, the majority of professors of German studies) consider "gendering" to be nonsense. I once tried to "gender" in a lecture. After the lecture, which was mainly attended by female student teachers, the students asked me not to repeat it.

Maria 1.0:If not, how can theologians present the Catholic Church's understanding of anthropology to people?

Klausnitzer: I would understand the Catholic Church's understanding of anthropology biblically (from the story of creation and from the Pauline Epistles), culturally (in all great cultures of mankind the complementary opposition of man and woman plays the decisive role), culturally philosophically (Sigmund Freud noted, that there is hardly a human drive that - in his opinion and rightly so - is as standardised in all cultures as the sexual drive) and biologically (all higher mammals know the polarity of male and female, without which their species would simply die out). To advocate such a "Catholic" anthropology and to claim it for members of the Catholic Church falls under the constitutional right of freedom of religion.

Maria 1.0:As a priest and theologian, what can you give our readers who want to live the faith along the way?

Klausnitzer:Plain and simple: Stay Catholic, as you hopefully learned it from your parents, teachers and educators. In the times of the Prussian Kulturkampf at the end of the 19th century, when the state forbade many Catholic priests and bishops from practising their ministry and thus also from celebrating the Eucharist, Bishop Konrad Martin of Paderborn wrote a "comfort booklet" for the laity, giving them, among other things, the following advice: Pray again and again, especially the Lord's Prayer and the Creed, say grace at table, read the Holy Scriptures, get together with other Catholics and talk about the faith, do not be afraid to say in public that you are Catholic, avoid meetings where people are agitating against the faith, and above all: keep in communion with the Pope, in summary: stay Catholic.

Maria 1.0: Last but not least: Of course we would like to know what you think of Maria 1.0?

Klausnitzer:I know the programme contents and some activities of Maria 1.0 from reports in the Catholic magazine "Die Tagespost" and from stories told by the research assistant Ms Larissa Porzelt from the Institute for Systematic Theology in Heiligenkreuz. I was impressed by how committed and fearless the group was in giving a Catholic testimony of faith during the last so-called Synodal Assembly in Frankfurt. It is important that younger women also speak out in all these debates and paint a realistic picture of Mary that is not a wishful projection of contemporary fantasies, but leaves this young Jewish woman in her time and understands her from it. In some statements in Frankfurt, people who recalled certain magisterial statements, for example on the ordination of women or on gender difference, were defamed as "misogynistic" or "out of step with the spirit of the times". That is why I think it is necessary for young women, who are also essentially the future of the Church, to say self-confidently what they think of such accusations and how they want to and can relate their being women and the traditional teachings of the Church and the historical figure of Mary attested in the Bible.

Mary 1.0: We thank you very much for the interview and wish you many blessings as a priest, theologian and new rector at the Benedict XVI College of the Holy Cross.

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