Lifelong episcopal friend of Pope gives extensive interview. “The great challenge is for people to accept that he is Leo XIV and not Francis II”

Interview with Alberto Bochatey: “The great challenge is for people to accept that he is Leo XIV and not Francis II”

In an exclusive interview with LA NACION, the auxiliary bishop of La Plata, who has known Robert Prevost for more than 30 years, spoke about the Supreme Pontiff's career and his relationship with his predecessor.

“I went in and said, ‘Can I give you a hug?’ And now what do I call you, ‘Robert’ or ‘Leo’?’ And he replied: ‘That’s your problem.’” If there's anyone who knows Leo XIV, the first American pope, but also a Peruvian one, very well, it's the auxiliary bishop of La Plata, Alberto Bochatey, who was received in audience by his old friend this Tuesday in the library of the Apostolic Palace.

"It was a very fraternal, very nice, happy audience. We talked about ourselves, about the Church in Argentina, about general topics. It was very serene. And I saw him very much in papal mode, already fully in office," an emotional Bochatey told LA NACION.

An Augustinian like him, of the same age, 69, in a long interview with LA NACION, Bochatey told the story of that friendship that began more than 30 years ago in Rome, when the two lived together at the Agustinianum—the headquarters of the Order of Saint Augustine, just meters from the Vatican—while they were studying.

“He was sent from the United States to study Canon Law at the Angelicum, and I was sent to study Moral Theology and Bioethics at the Alphonsian (Lateranese) Institute, which would later become my lifelong field. We lived together here, we were members of the same community, with the same activities as young priests,” recalled Bochatey, who traveled to Rome to attend the beginning of the pontificate and never lost contact with Robert Francis Prevost.

“There are three of us in Rome who were Augustinians born in 1955: the current General, the Spaniard Alejandro Moral, whose birthday is in June; I, whose birthday is in July; and Robert, in September,” he explained, during a meeting in a room on the ground floor of the Augustinianum, located a few meters from St. Peter's Basilica. In his second term leading the Augustinians, Prevost even called Bochatey to Rome to serve as the order's prior from 2009 to 2013: "At that time, Alejandro Moral was the vicar and I was the prior. He summoned me to take charge of the International Studies Complex. Here, we were a triumvirate of '55."

When Bochatey, who lived in Rome for 16 years, was appointed bishop by Benedict XVI in December 2012—one of Joseph Ratzinger's last appointments—Prevost, then Superior of the order, traveled to Argentina to support him at his episcopal ordination on March 9, 2013. By then, the See of Peter was vacant: the German pope had resigned, and the conclave was about to elect Jorge Bergoglio, the archbishop of Buenos Aires, who had already taken note of the Augustinian missionary in Peru during his visits to the capital, as Superior of the order.

A very interesting video has come to light in which Prevost, as he said goodbye to Peru to travel to Rome as Prefect of the Dicastery of Bishops, says that when Francis was elected, he thought he would never become a bishop because, he says, during his time as Superior of the Augustinians, he had some disagreements with him, who was then Archbishop of Buenos Aires. Could you shed a little more light on that?

I'm not sure what the specific argument is. I do know that, as a General, we had some conflicts, and that there are always conflicts around the world, where we are present in 90 countries. And he once had to speak with Bergoglio, and they didn't quite agree on some solutions that the general and the Holy See were seeking. These are the tensions that always exist...

But obviously, Bergoglio, beyond the disagreements, had already had his eye on him, right?

Yes, they met later, and Francis discovered him, let's say, as a personality. He made him a bishop in 2014, then brought him here, made him a cardinal. And I remember that, shortly after Pope Francis made Robert a bishop in Peru (Chiclayo), I came to Rome and said, 'Thank you for appointing another Augustinian bishop, and besides, you weren't wrong because Robert is fantastic.' And Francis gave me one of his looks and praised him highly, telling me he was an exceptional man and that he was going to do very well in Peru...

Later, he became vice president of the Peruvian Episcopal Conference...

Francis gave him two of those complicated dioceses in Peru to administer, and after doing so, he first made him a member of the Dicastery for Bishops, then brought him as prefect, made him a cardinal, and made him cardinal-bishop, the ultimate. It's as if he was pointing the finger at it in a way. He was one of the Cardinals he viewed with hope, I think.

Was his election as Pope a surprise to you?

Yes, it was a surprise. Although he has all the qualities to be an excellent pope, I thought he wouldn't be elected because of other factors, such as votes or power. He's an American bishop, but he's never served as a bishop in the United States; he's completely outside the complexities of the American episcopate. He's from the Roman Curia, but completely outside the Roman "ring." He traveled the entire world, from China, Vietnam, Laos, Africa, as general of the Augustinians—there are 4,000 of us in almost 90 countries—something that gave him a global vision. In other words, he knows the East, the West, Africa, Latin America. Everything! From Mexico to Tierra del Fuego, he's been to every country.

Alberto Bochatey during Francis' visit to the Church of St. Augustine in Rome. Prevost was then the superior, and Bochatey was prior, in August 2013, when he invited him to preside over the Mass of the General Chapter of the Augustinians.

Alberto Bochatey during Pope Francis' visit to the Church of St. Augustine in Rome. Prevost was then the superior, and Bochatey was prior, in August 2013, when he invited him to preside over the Mass of the General Chapter of the Augustinians.

How many times did Prevost visit Argentina during your 12 years as superior of the Augustinians?

Three or four times. He was there twice during my episcopal ordination in 2013, and in 2006 when we had a very important conference on St. Augustine. From that time, there's a very funny, very unique photo of him concelebrating Mass with Bergoglio: the future popes who met at St. Augustine in Buenos Aires celebrating Mass!

Which of the two popes did you know best? Prevost or Bergoglio?

Prevost, because I was a classmate and worked with him. We were on commissions together in Latin America…

What was he like when you met?

He was always the best in studies, always brilliant. When we were students here, he'd already spent a year as a missionary in Peru. We were already priests, so we were around 30 years old.

So, did you already imagine you were going to pursue such a career?

Yes, we saw that he was a special guy who was going to make it big because he was studious, a good listener, a good classmate, and also a good athlete. He did well in everything he took on. He was one of those classmates of yours who stood out, and he was also a good friend: you could chat with him, you could go out for pizza, too. In other words, he was a normal guy, not boring just because he was serious or a man of few words. No, not at all. In other words, he's a very balanced, thoughtful man who knows how to command.

How did you experience the white smoke and the "Habemus Papam" on May 8th?

We were at the Bishops' plenary session in Pilar, we were finishing lunch, and someone on a cell phone announced the white smoke. We quickly went to the large room and there they connected with Vatican News, and I sat toward the back to listen properly. When the protodeacon said "Robert Francis," I understood it was him.

And what was your reaction?

I started crying like a child. I think that there, in that moment, I experienced the catharsis of Francis's death and the election of the new pope, because until that moment, it seemed unbelievable to us that Francis was dead... So, yes, it was an immense emotion. And well, all the bishops came to greet me, telling me, "A brother of yours, an Augustinian," and I couldn't express my emotion because we had spoken the days before, we talked, and I thought that for me he should be the pope, for all his qualities: a good age, he knows languages, knows the world, but perhaps there are other ties and forces that will vote for someone else... But the Holy Spirit chose him...

What do you dream Leo XIV can do now?

I think he will undoubtedly follow the main lines proposed by Francis, who set the Church on a path necessary for the 21st century, which is a bit like what he said, taking the name of Leo XIV from Leo XIII, who was the one who brought the world into the 20th century, into modernity. So, the dream is that he can continue pushing into the 21st century, with the certainty that he already lived this Church.

In what sense?

Well, everyone asks you if Leo is going to follow what Francis did, and I told many of them "no" because I believe Francis said what he already lived. In what sense? When Francis spoke to us about an outgoing Church, he, Robert, had already left his native United States and spent 20 years as a missionary in Peru. When Francis said that the poor must be at the center, he had already fallen out with Fujimori and denounced Trump's policies, and he was on the side of the poorest of the poor in Peru. When Francis spoke to us about the synodal Church, for years he was a promoter of dialogue, of joint paths within the Order of Saint Augustine, which means sitting down to listen in meetings, drafting documents together. All of that was an immense experience: he already lived a synodal life within the Order. I know there are several characteristics that Francis proposed to the world that, when you look at the life of Leo XIV, he already lived. He understood.

He already lived Francis's proposal…

Yes, so if he already lived it, he'll continue to do so, evidently adding his own style, his own attitude, as the Spanish would say, since he's a more serene man. We won't see him drinking mate in the plaza; he'll be less disruptive, but that doesn't mean he's going to back down. In fact, I laughed at some of the comments, about him wearing the red cape or going to live in the palace. He's going to do it because he's more formal than Francis... My grandfather would have said he's a very well-educated man who will maintain the formalities, but he will undoubtedly renew the content.

Will he renew the content?

Yes, he's going to continue on a path of renewal. We've already heard about it, the theme of peace, the theme of war situations... We're going to discover a very rich thought in him, because he's a good theologian. He knows Saint Augustine very well, he has a doctorate in Canon Law, he has always dedicated himself, between his pastoral life, his work on the mission, and also to university life, the formation of seminarians. In other words, he covers all areas of his life.

Furthermore, he's a mathematician...

A mathematician, by definition. At university in the United States, he earned a degree in mathematics, then entered the seminary and dedicated himself to theology.

For you, what will be your great challenge now?

For me, as a Church, it is to ground Francis's ideas more deeply. Francis opened many fronts, launched many initiatives, the entire synodal process, which is a huge explosion, but it needs to be grounded. There are still many people who don't fully understand how it's done or where all this is leading. In addition, there's the whole issue of how to organize or work for peace in the world, plus others that can be opened now, such as artificial intelligence. It presents very big challenges, but I think the great challenge is also getting people to accept that he is Leo XIV and not Francis II. I think the worst thing this pope could do is imitate Francis...

Although it's already clear that he has his style...

Yes, he has his personality and his great respect and affection for Francis. We mustn't forget that in the last two years he worked hand in hand with Francis. They met every Saturday, talking about bishops, no less. This is a key issue in the life and governance of the Church. And between one thing and another, I'm sure they've exchanged ideas and talked about many other issues, beyond the technical episcopal ones. And Francis gave him a lot of support. He always had it as one of his hopes.

Source