Leading modernist starts crying when she discovers Catholic Church cannot be made in her image

ZdK leader Stetter-Karp criticizes the backlog of reforms in the church

“It’s hard inch-by-inch work”

As ZdK president, the social scientist Irme Stetter-Karp advocates for reforms in the church. This is not always an easy path, says the lay representative in an interview with the Evangelical Press Service.

epd: After the “conciliation meeting” between the German bishops and the Curia in Rome last week: Is the way now clear for the Synodal Committee, in which laypeople and bishops will discuss further reforms together?

Irme Stetter-Karp (President of the Central Committee of German Catholics): Yes, we can now continue working. That is the crucial message. The Synodal Committee is scheduled to meet in Mainz in June.

Irme Stetter-Karp

"We still have a steep road ahead of us, and to do that we need room to breathe."

For the period up to 2026, it is also important for us to see whether Rome's trust in the Germans grows to such an extent that we can work somewhat freely. We still have a steep road ahead of us, and to do that we need room to breathe.

The German bishops are of course not only committed to Rome, but also to the people in their dioceses. And 96 percent of Catholics in Germany urgently expect it

Reforms.

We know this from the church membership survey. That means we have the mandate to continue on this path. And that also applies to the bishops. Difficult enough given the international situation in the World Synod.

epd: Is it now also financially secure that the Synodal Committee can work?

Stetter-Karp: The founding meeting of the new sponsoring association was invited during Holy Week. In the end, the four bishops who did not want to co-finance could not prevent this. Although, of course, we painfully see that four dioceses are not going along, which also creates unrest within the dioceses among the members of the ZdK.

Irme Stetter-Karp

  "Two generations have broken their trust in the church."

epd: In the church membership study you can see that only a few Catholics identify with their church leader in Rome. Does that mean that the Catholics at the grassroots level are perhaps much more ready for reform than the Pope in Rome and his Curia?

Stetter-Karp: Yes. Among those who experienced the period of awakening with the Second Vatican Council, there were already in the last two pontificates under Pope Benedict XVI. and Pope John Paul II. disappointments built up. With the boys I see a break between the reality of their lives and the dogmas of the church.

The gap has become so wide that it is immensely difficult to understand why change is delayed again and again. Two generations have lost their trust in the church. By the way, I'm surprised that women over 80 are often happy that we're no longer just watching.

Irme Stetter-Karp

“Some of our delegates are beginning to question whether we are fooling ourselves.”

epd: What is the mood among those who, like you, are committed to moving forward?

Stetter-Karp: Some of our delegates are already wondering whether we are fooling ourselves. There are doubts as to whether reforms will ultimately be achieved given this institution and its persistence. I understand that. But there are also many who want to continue fighting for it despite these doubts. This is hard millimeter work. But it's ups and downs and I find it emotionally exhausting. epd: Is the slogan "Just keep going" - even against the barriers, against the bloody noses that you've already gotten?

Stetter-Karp: It's not a self-evident "easy going", but rather a constant check with the question: Does this still help? We as laypeople have pledged to seriously address the systemic causes of sexual abuse. So far we have every reason to continue on this path.

epd: With a view to the universal Church Synodal process, is the topic of abuse present enough for you?

Stetter-Karp: Clearly, no. Especially in the Vatican, but also at the level of the World Synod, I see a lack of willingness to face the reasons for the abuse in our Church and its cover-up.

In the results of the most recent abuse study for the Protestant Church, some conservatives have seen evidence that the Catholic Church does not need to worry about its specific structure; the issue is the same everywhere.

I do not think so. We have the task of taking a close look at the causes in our institution and ensuring that structures that promote abuse change.

Irme Stetter-Karp

"I'm even more skeptical than last year."

epd: Pope Francis has now decided to outsource many of the topics of the World Synod to working groups - including topics that were important to the ZdK from the beginning: offices for women and more democratic participation. How confident are you that concrete results will be achieved in October?

Stetter-Karp: I'm even more skeptical than last year. Already during the World Synod the impression arose that there was a lot of poetry in the words. I read and listen to vague things and a lot of reflection. As if the Catholic Church had all the time in the world to discuss things for another year.

I can see from the reaction on different continents to Pope Francis' decision to allow the blessing of same-sex couples how highly controversial certain developments are. But on the other hand, I see how urgent the women's issue is, for example.

This is not just an issue in Europe, but also in India and Latin America - as is the necessary acceptance and appreciation of LGBTQ people by the Catholic world church. The concern is simply that time is running out.

Irme Stetter-Karp

"The Roman magisterium is still fixed in its assessment of homosexuality."

epd: Is the blessing paper that was published shortly before Christmas a glimmer of hope that change is possible?

Stetter-Karp: From my point of view it remains ambivalent. Pope Francis conveys credibly that he is focused on people. For this reason, he opens the blessing to all couples. But he doesn't touch the principles or theology. The Roman Magisterium is still fixed in its assessment of homosexuality.

Of course I also see the conflicts that the Pope faces. At the same time, he has all the power to give the development of the church a clear direction. And I often ask myself why he doesn't use it more decisively when he sees where many believers are struggling.

Irme Stetter-Karp

"Conversations about the equal rights of women in church services and offices, which for me is a human right, are highly charged."

epd: Pope Francis recently complained about an alleged gender ideology. Are the debates in the Catholic Church currently also an expression of an identity conflict?

Stetter-Karp: A clear yes from me. I have worked on the issue of gender equality for years, both in the context of my dissertation as a social scientist and in Caritas Germany, where I received a lot of hate as a gender representative over many years.

For me, these ideological debates are an expression of a backslash. I've been watching this for a long time. Conversations about the equal rights of women in church services and positions, which for me is a human right, are highly charged.

This is also my experience from discussions with Catholic representatives from other European countries, such as Poland, where our attempts to open up are already going too far for some.

Irme Stetter-Karp

"It's very obviously about power."

epd: You often hear that the future of the church is being negotiated at the world synod. Isn't it really about the question of who has the power?

Stetter-Karp: It's very obviously about power. It's about the great difficulty of achieving more participation, which is inherent in being a Christian. Not just in the sense of being allowed to have a say. For the sake of the Church, we are looking for ways to deliberate and decide together with the bishops.

epd: What progress has there been since the Synodal Path began in 2019?

Stetter-Karp: I notice that a number of bishops are engaging in the conversation, listening to criticism, and admitting the unvarnished truth of what is happening at the church base, in the communities.

That's not so easy when you usually only interact with people like you. This is a good experience. That gives me confidence that it's worth fighting with each other. We can be allies for the future.

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