Head of German Catholic laity surprised Poland will not follow Germany's lead

ZdK leader Stetter-Karp thoughtful after trip to Poland

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"A more divided society"

The relationship between Germany and Poland is complicated, also in the Church. A German lay delegation visited Poland last week. ZdK President Irme Stetter-Karp would like to see more differentiation on both sides.

DOMRADIO.DE: You were in Poland before and during Pentecost with a delegation from the ZdK, the Maximilian-Kolbe-Werk and Pax Christi and had many discussions with church representatives. Can you say that the reform wishes that Catholics have in Poland are the same as those we have in Germany? 

Irme Stetter-Karp (President of the Central Committee of German Catholics): That depends very much on which organisation we are talking to. Because we have a colourful landscape in the sense that there are organisations among Catholics that support the PiS government, for example, have a conservative orientation and, for example, also find the Catholic Church's attitude to queer people right and see no need for change there.

Irme Steter-Kamp

"I would say in Poland it's a more divided situation than here, because there are different majorities."

And there are other organisations, which include, for example, KIK, the Club of the Catholic Intelligentsia in Poland, who represent a completely different direction, who are very happy about our German reform efforts, are in solidarity with us and are trying to bring about change in their country. I would say that in Poland it is a more divided society than here, because there are other majorities. However, we were not only on Christian issues, but also on political issues. 

DOMRADIO.DE: Give us a few impressions. What did you experience during these days in Poland? 

Stetter-Karp: We experienced many things, because we had many different dialogue partners. For me, the important thing about this trip is that we were able to gain realistic insights into our neighbouring country, of which we also know that the past has left burdens on both sides.

It is not at all easy to really understand each other with one's own political line or also with one's own Christian line. I think it is especially important now, when the war is creating new burdens between East and West, to explore opportunities in an encounter. We have met impressive Christians who show us that other countries are also striving for a witness for the future. 

DOMRADIO.DE: A major issue of conflict in Poland is the treatment of sexual minorities. You met a group of young LGBTQ Catholics who are currently in a socially difficult situation. What do they experience in Poland and what did they tell you? 

Stetter-Karp: We heard that quite a few young people are leaving the Catholic Church in Poland because it rejects queer people and because young people no longer have any understanding for this discriminatory attitude. This is certainly a challenge for the Catholic Church, which can no longer count on a very clear popular church culture as in the past. Cardinal Nycz also marked this out for us during his talk. They know that they will have smaller communities and will have to look for new ways. 

DOMRADIO.DE: The relationship between Germany and Poland has always not been an uncomplicated one. The Ukraine war and Germany's longstanding attitude towards Russia have changed the relationship even more. Is this a topic that has also come up with you? 

Stetter-Karp: Yes, in several talks, for example with the German ambassador in Warsaw. For me, it is clear that in the country directly bordering Ukraine, Poland, Russia and its policies are perceived more sharply, perhaps also more realistically.

Irme Stetter-Karp

"Some people attribute a certain naivety to us Germans at this point. Of course, that makes you think."

Some say that we Germans have a certain naivety at this point. That, of course, makes you think. How naïve are we at a distance? Do we actually know how strong the fear of our immediate neighbours is? This also applies to the countries in the north, see Finland and its quick decision to clearly align itself politically with the West and to seek EU membership. These are aspects that leave me pensive and attentive to the situation in Poland. 

DOMRADIO.DE: With your visit, you are following up on a reconciliation trip that Pax Christi made to Poland in 1964. To what extent do you think the issue of reconciliation is still problematic today? 

Stetter-Karp: I think it will remain a permanent task, because from my point of view the history of Poland is very much marked by injuries. Poland was wiped out, did not exist as a state for a long time, and the Catholic Church is the factor that made the state possible in the first place, as everyone has confirmed. In Poland, national ideas are anchored in a completely different way than they are here. We simply have to take note of this and consider how Germany can act more sensitively and more vulnerably towards Poland.

The closer Christians are to the PiS government, for example, the more difficult the conversation becomes, because we have less understanding for an aggravation of the situation. We try - I think I can speak for German politics here - because of our past not to emphasise being German nationally, but to do everything we can to react openly. But of course that also leads to limits: What is possible in terms of reparations in the future? Are the demands justified? 

DOMRADIO.DE: You met with "Catholic Action", the organised lay representation of the Catholic Church in Poland. After the meeting, there was quite strong criticism in a press release of the Synodal Path in Germany, for which you are also jointly responsible as ZdK. The Synodal Path "is not based on the Gospel". How do you react to this criticism after the discussion? 

Stetter-Karp: We were very surprised, because we did not talk specifically about the Synodal Path in Germany. We showed great interest in learning about their work, which they also used extensively. Moreover, no press work was agreed upon. The impression remains that this is not the best style. 

DOMRADIO.DE: So the reality is neither black nor white. There are different views in Church and society - in our country as well as in Poland. Would your conclusion be that we have to differentiate more when it comes to society like Poland?

Irme Stetter-Karp

"It remains a constant mission, which is not easy to translate into the current situation in each case."

Stetter-Karp: Differentiate and listen. Encounter is a good way of doing this, i.e. actually going abroad. At the end of the journey, on Pentecost Sunday, we spent the whole day in Ausschwitz. Of course, for us German Christians, the question remains: How do we strengthen our capacity for reconciliation? It remains a constant mission, which is not easy to translate into the current situation in each case. The trip was a very good learning opportunity to practise together with the hosts, to nourish and strengthen the capacity for solidarity. 

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