a petition has been opened in the Diocese of Turin (one of the less Latin-mass-friendly in Italy) to ask the bishop for granting a personal parish for the approx. 500 Vetus Ordo followers, according to SPC:
Two things: 1. I used to attend a Charasmatic Parish, I still attend the parish, but the Charasmatics do not. These people were deeply in love with Jesus. They overflowed with love for Christ. It was impressive, our deacon at that time was one of the giants of the Charasmatic movement in the area. He preached with the fire of a southern baptist, his homily after 9/11 2001 will stick with me always. He called down the wrath of God on the goddless terrorists as he called them, he practically called for a crusade and if he had we would have heeded his call. Him and the parish priest were very captivating and holy men (also kinda hot headed at times). In other words I have much respect for Charasmatics and how much they love the Lord.
2. They claim that the holy Spirit moves them to worship the way they do. I have a hard time believing that. Would the Holy Spirit tell people to disobey the Church? TO disobey the Church's liturgical laws? To be very often so disrespectul of the Mass by allowing relaxed standards of dress? I have heard Charasmatics complain about Cafeteria Catholicism a great number of times, and then they pick and choose what liturgical elements they want when they have Mass. Which may not be Cafeteria Catholicism on morals, but it is still a relativistic approach to the liturgy, and it makes the liturgy Man centered because the Mass is about uplifting us, what makes us feel good, what makes us feel like God is close to us; instead of focusing on God and praising him alone.
I see that you labelled this video as an instance of liturgical abuse. On behalf of Charismatic Catholics, would you be so good as to substantiate this slur by documenting precisely what were the liturgical abuses?
I take it that you find it offensive that so many young people were worshiping the Lord in this exhuberant fashion. What if you had seen David dancing with wild abandon before the ark as it was brought into Jerusalem? Perhaps you think the psalms were sung in Israel in Latin in Gregorian chant with alternating choirs.
The Mass is the summit and source of Catholic worship, but a summit presumes a base. Paraliturgies of every type have the possibility of forming that base and leading to that summit. Novenas, rosaries, eucharistic processions (shown here), pilgrimages (shown here) are therefore all to the good, and the more young people in them the better.
In the name of all that is holy, what right have you to pour scorn on the worship of these young Catholics? Your post is schismatic in tendency and a very serious abuse against the unity of the Church and the faith of young people.
During Charasmatic Masses all sorts of liturgical laws and norms are broken. Does the Holy Spirit inspire people to disobey the Church? No! The Masses done in Charasmatic Circles are full of liturgical abuses. Maybe there are some that have no liturgical abuses but I have never seen one. The Charasmatics that were in my parish became very indignant when it was pointed out to them that what they were doing during Mass contradicted what Rome taught, they justified it by saying it was what the spirit led them to do. When the priest insisted we toe the line better they threw fits, and started a civil war in the parish because they couldn't clap during songs or dance in the aisles and stuff like that. They all left, they would rather leave their parish then try and follow the rules for Mass laid down by Holy Mother Church. Ever since then I have had a hard time trusting the Charasmatic Movement, other people that I know that are still in the movement act the same way. They all also quote the issue David dancing before the Lord. Awesome! But he wasn't at Mass the the Holy Mother Church hadn't issued the rules for Mass which dont allow for such things during Mass because Mass is to be a Solemn Expirience! It is not about personal taste it is about Saying the Black and Doing the Red and loving God.
Also you assume this is what young people want but often it is not! I am a young Catholic and I go to a catholic university. Many of the people I know are growing more and more in love with Tradition. When they are exposed to it. I have heard the comment before that stuff like the Charasmatic Movement and Life Teen were great but this moves them at a deeper level. They want the Mass as the Council Fathers intended. With Chant, Incense, Ad Orientem, Lace Mantilla's on girls. It is not a ton of people but it grows every year (and the strongest support for such things is in the Seminary attached to my college).
I think you are assuming this is what young people want. But maybe they just perfer it to the bland Masses of their parents that have awful 70's music and a priest who preachs only weak plattitudes. They want a more intense expirience, have you tried offering them tradition and fire and brimstone intense preaching that challenges them to be Faithful Practicing Catholics? You may be suprised how well that works too, and has staying power, you eventually have to grow up and things like life teen and the Charasmatic movement that are tied to current fads with no longer be attractive... what happens then?
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Comments
a petition has been opened in the Diocese of Turin (one of the less Latin-mass-friendly in Italy) to ask the bishop for granting a personal parish for the approx. 500 Vetus Ordo followers, according to SPC:
http://www.unavox.it/Novita2009/Novi0905_Petizione_TO.html
Thank You for your support and for your prayers.
1. I used to attend a Charasmatic Parish, I still attend the parish, but the Charasmatics do not. These people were deeply in love with Jesus. They overflowed with love for Christ. It was impressive, our deacon at that time was one of the giants of the Charasmatic movement in the area. He preached with the fire of a southern baptist, his homily after 9/11 2001 will stick with me always. He called down the wrath of God on the goddless terrorists as he called them, he practically called for a crusade and if he had we would have heeded his call. Him and the parish priest were very captivating and holy men (also kinda hot headed at times). In other words I have much respect for Charasmatics and how much they love the Lord.
2. They claim that the holy Spirit moves them to worship the way they do. I have a hard time believing that. Would the Holy Spirit tell people to disobey the Church? TO disobey the Church's liturgical laws? To be very often so disrespectul of the Mass by allowing relaxed standards of dress? I have heard Charasmatics complain about Cafeteria Catholicism a great number of times, and then they pick and choose what liturgical elements they want when they have Mass. Which may not be Cafeteria Catholicism on morals, but it is still a relativistic approach to the liturgy, and it makes the liturgy Man centered because the Mass is about uplifting us, what makes us feel good, what makes us feel like God is close to us; instead of focusing on God and praising him alone.
I take it that you find it offensive that so many young people were worshiping the Lord in this exhuberant fashion. What if you had seen David dancing with wild abandon before the ark as it was brought into Jerusalem? Perhaps you think the psalms were sung in Israel in Latin in Gregorian chant with alternating choirs.
The Mass is the summit and source of Catholic worship, but a summit presumes a base. Paraliturgies of every type have the possibility of forming that base and leading to that summit. Novenas, rosaries, eucharistic processions (shown here), pilgrimages (shown here) are therefore all to the good, and the more young people in them the better.
In the name of all that is holy, what right have you to pour scorn on the worship of these young Catholics? Your post is schismatic in tendency and a very serious abuse against the unity of the Church and the faith of young people.
You are completely mistaken.
During Charasmatic Masses all sorts of liturgical laws and norms are broken. Does the Holy Spirit inspire people to disobey the Church? No! The Masses done in Charasmatic Circles are full of liturgical abuses. Maybe there are some that have no liturgical abuses but I have never seen one. The Charasmatics that were in my parish became very indignant when it was pointed out to them that what they were doing during Mass contradicted what Rome taught, they justified it by saying it was what the spirit led them to do. When the priest insisted we toe the line better they threw fits, and started a civil war in the parish because they couldn't clap during songs or dance in the aisles and stuff like that. They all left, they would rather leave their parish then try and follow the rules for Mass laid down by Holy Mother Church. Ever since then I have had a hard time trusting the Charasmatic Movement, other people that I know that are still in the movement act the same way. They all also quote the issue David dancing before the Lord. Awesome! But he wasn't at Mass the the Holy Mother Church hadn't issued the rules for Mass which dont allow for such things during Mass because Mass is to be a Solemn Expirience! It is not about personal taste it is about Saying the Black and Doing the Red and loving God.
Also you assume this is what young people want but often it is not! I am a young Catholic and I go to a catholic university. Many of the people I know are growing more and more in love with Tradition. When they are exposed to it. I have heard the comment before that stuff like the Charasmatic Movement and Life Teen were great but this moves them at a deeper level. They want the Mass as the Council Fathers intended. With Chant, Incense, Ad Orientem, Lace Mantilla's on girls. It is not a ton of people but it grows every year (and the strongest support for such things is in the Seminary attached to my college).
I think you are assuming this is what young people want. But maybe they just perfer it to the bland Masses of their parents that have awful 70's music and a priest who preachs only weak plattitudes. They want a more intense expirience, have you tried offering them tradition and fire and brimstone intense preaching that challenges them to be Faithful Practicing Catholics? You may be suprised how well that works too, and has staying power, you eventually have to grow up and things like life teen and the Charasmatic movement that are tied to current fads with no longer be attractive... what happens then?