Cardinal Hoyos speaks on the Williamson affair
In an interview with El Tiempo, the Cardinal speaks on the reinstatement in the Church of Richard Williamson and reveals that through his mediation Saddam Hussein attempted to seek asylum in Thailand .
Dialogues ' Up front and without fear 'from Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos and Cesar Mauricio Velasquez
Castrillón talked by telephone from Rome (Italy) about the launch today at the El Chico Museum in Bogota, the book 'Up front and without fear - Dialogues with Cardinal Dario Castrillon,' authored by the journalist Cesar Mauricio Velasquez.
The text discusses topics such as politics, poverty and terrorism in light of the Catholic faith and the revelations made to offer Hussein, former Iraqi dictator asylum in Thailand.
The controversy with the bishop
Bishop Castrillón was in charge of talks with the four excommunicated SSPX bishops and his work was criticized for allowing Williamson’s return to the Church without first retracting his words.
The event, in which the Colombian Cardinal was involved generated global outrage at the beginning of February, because the Jewish community refused to accept the papal pardon given to someone who denied the existence of gas chambers during the Nazi regime in Germany.
What was your role in the mediation with SSPX members from whom the excommunications were lifted?
Monsignor Dario Castrillon: I held the talks but that does not mean it was me who was just talking with (Bernard) Fellay (head of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Pius X). I always had around me the whole group which the Holy See needs for each step. When we spoke of excommunication was not a dialogue of Castrillón with Fellay ..., no, no, no. I will not negotiate with anyone. It was the Commission of Cardinals, including Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI), because the discussions started when he was not Pope. There was not a single act which was not made as a body.
How did you hear the words of Williamson in denying the Holocaust?
When there was a big reaction from the Jewish world and bishops of the most sensitive areas (Germany, Switzerland and Austria), we heard officially. On February 5, the communication was in our hands. But the SSPX bishops were not excommunicated for reasons of doctrine, but because they had been ordained without permission.
Was there a 'pulled ear' when the Pope's spokesman, Federico Lombardi, said that you had to know what Williamson had said?
He did not say exactly that and if he said somethinglike , it was absurd and stupid, because it was not considering the records of these bishops. The one thing necessary to know is that they were ordained by (Marcel) Lefebvre without permission.
To lift the excommunication was it not necessary that Williamson retracts?
Nobody was going to ask for a retraction because the Holy Father did not know what he had said.
If you had known, would you have requested their withdrawal before lifting the excommunication?
I think not, because it is a historical problem is not moral. In prudence, the Holy Father could have said to wait a moment. I think there was negligence by the spokesman of the Holy See in the statement he gave to 'La Croix', because it does not have to enter judgments about people saying that a cardinal has to know something that he does not need to know. If someone had to know this, it is the cardinal who is responsible for the lives of the bishops, Cardinal Re
Is he aware of what the spokesman said?
Frankly I was not interested. He wrote me a letter of apology. We have been very good friends.
The search for asylum for Saddam Hussein
Dialogues ' Up front and without fear 'from Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos and Cesar Mauricio Velasquez
Castrillón talked by telephone from Rome (Italy) about the launch today at the El Chico Museum in Bogota, the book 'Up front and without fear - Dialogues with Cardinal Dario Castrillon,' authored by the journalist Cesar Mauricio Velasquez.
The text discusses topics such as politics, poverty and terrorism in light of the Catholic faith and the revelations made to offer Hussein, former Iraqi dictator asylum in Thailand.
The controversy with the bishop
Bishop Castrillón was in charge of talks with the four excommunicated SSPX bishops and his work was criticized for allowing Williamson’s return to the Church without first retracting his words.
The event, in which the Colombian Cardinal was involved generated global outrage at the beginning of February, because the Jewish community refused to accept the papal pardon given to someone who denied the existence of gas chambers during the Nazi regime in Germany.
What was your role in the mediation with SSPX members from whom the excommunications were lifted?
Monsignor Dario Castrillon: I held the talks but that does not mean it was me who was just talking with (Bernard) Fellay (head of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Pius X). I always had around me the whole group which the Holy See needs for each step. When we spoke of excommunication was not a dialogue of Castrillón with Fellay ..., no, no, no. I will not negotiate with anyone. It was the Commission of Cardinals, including Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI), because the discussions started when he was not Pope. There was not a single act which was not made as a body.
How did you hear the words of Williamson in denying the Holocaust?
When there was a big reaction from the Jewish world and bishops of the most sensitive areas (Germany, Switzerland and Austria), we heard officially. On February 5, the communication was in our hands. But the SSPX bishops were not excommunicated for reasons of doctrine, but because they had been ordained without permission.
Was there a 'pulled ear' when the Pope's spokesman, Federico Lombardi, said that you had to know what Williamson had said?
He did not say exactly that and if he said somethinglike , it was absurd and stupid, because it was not considering the records of these bishops. The one thing necessary to know is that they were ordained by (Marcel) Lefebvre without permission.
To lift the excommunication was it not necessary that Williamson retracts?
Nobody was going to ask for a retraction because the Holy Father did not know what he had said.
If you had known, would you have requested their withdrawal before lifting the excommunication?
I think not, because it is a historical problem is not moral. In prudence, the Holy Father could have said to wait a moment. I think there was negligence by the spokesman of the Holy See in the statement he gave to 'La Croix', because it does not have to enter judgments about people saying that a cardinal has to know something that he does not need to know. If someone had to know this, it is the cardinal who is responsible for the lives of the bishops, Cardinal Re
Is he aware of what the spokesman said?
Frankly I was not interested. He wrote me a letter of apology. We have been very good friends.
The search for asylum for Saddam Hussein
How is it that the Pope mediated to find asylum for Hussein?
A German gentlemen came to my house in Rome months before the arrest of Hussein. I was told he came in the name of King of Thailand and that he asked that the Vatican should make an offer to Hussein, and asked that I would tell Hussein that the King of Thailand would give safe haven to him and a large group, if I recall some 500. I told the Holy Father of this offer and he told me that this would be through the Nunciature. I said we could call immediately the Prime Minister of Thailand and this was done to verify that it was a real thing. That much I knew.
Why was Thailand willing to do that?
I do not know, nor do I know why - I asked myself that. The purpose was to avoid war, but I do not know how far the mediation of the Church went
Peace in Colombia
What is the Christian response to violence in Colombia?
If there is no recognition of a personal God who has revealed himself, it is very difficult to agree on solutions. When it comes to knowing the mind of God is that He is Lord of life and we must bring into play elements such as: the primacy of charity and mercy, without destroying justice for the common good.
What alternative is there to talking peace with the guerrillas?
Where roads are open for dialogue, and the President has opened them, as well as previous administrations and we know that they have some who occupied important positions in the country who left the guerrillas. Some of them, Antonio Navarro Wolf (now governor of Nariño), I met with a rifle in the bush to protect himself from being shot.
How to talk on faith in God if the guerrillas are atheist?
I do not say very solemnly that the guerrillas are atheist. Many members of the guerrillas are children of Christian homes. Many times I spoke with guerrillas who had a knowledge of the faith. Since faith allowed me to talk about an attitude of respect for life.
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