Leading moral theologian sees no barriers to sacramental homosexual marriage

An interview on the official church website of the German Bishops' Conference.

"Not to break the staff on the backs of others"

The moral theologian, Stephan Goertz about the Church's attitude to homosexuality
"If someone is gay, who the Lord seeks and has good will - who am I to judge him?" Thus Pope Francis spoke two years ago at a press conference on the return flight from his first trip to Latin America. "Who am I to judge him?" in line with this is the title of a new collection of essays on the subject "Homosexuality and the Catholic Church".

In an interview the theologian. Stephan Goertz the Mainz moral theologian explained the motivation for the publication of the comprehensive 400 page volume.

Question: Professor Goertz, why so many religions find homosexuality difficult?

Goertz: religions such as Judaism, Islam or Christianity come from a time that did not yet have available today our human scientific knowledge about human sexuality; that which then applied was unquestionably equated with the divine order: the Earth is the centre of the world, men and women are not equal, all men covet women, all women men. And that affects the sexual morality.

Stephan Goertz (pictured here with the Essen Bishop Overbeck) is a professor of moral theology at the University of Mainz

Question: What was derived from it?

Goertz: The reproduction was considered the primary God-given natural purpose of sexuality. And sexual behavior was not allowed to endanger the social order. In this concept, sexual relations between men or women had no place.

Question: Do you deal in your book specifically with the subject "Homosexuality and the Catholic Church". Does the Church of today not have more important, more urgent issues?

Goertz: You should ask that to those for whom homosexuality still is a problem. It would be irresponsible if the theology would not comment. First, sexuality is something that affects all people. And secondly, we still have to deal with the fact that at the political level in many parts of the world there is discrimination, persecution, with exclusion of homosexuals. It would be an important Christian witness, if the Catholic Church were to act with a resolute anti-discrimination policy.

Question Now, the church has long said yes, that homosexuals should not be discriminated against. But then there are also the traditional and biblical passages, where homosexuality is condemned ...

Goertz: We always have to figure in the concrete historical situation of the authors of biblical texts in our interpretation.

Question: In the book of Leviticus, sexual acts between people of the same sex are called "atrocities" that "are punished by death". That sounds pretty clear.

Goertz: The context here is of that sexuality had to fulfil the primary purpose, to ensure the survival of the people. That's obviously not our situation, and that's especially since the Council no longer our sexual morality. Therefore, one cannot use single quotes taken out of context to answer a moral issue today. That would be a fundamentalist use of biblical texts.

Question: Opposition: Do you not do the exact same thing if you pick out the points that match your view of things?

Goertz: I take a theological stance on the foundation of the Bible. That God has absolutely promised everyone his love that in the people of God natural, social differences are to be overcome, that we should not condemn others. I think that is theologically more important than rules on the "nature" of individual sexual acts.

Question: The problem is that anyone who wants to talk today about homosexuality and church without foaming at the mouth, is at once caught in the crossfire between right wing blogs or left wing church critics ...
Goertz: In certain circles one has the impression that arguments barely penetrate in fact. The task of theology is to examine the arguments and to ask what today the Christian message demands from us. We must carefully differentiate and boldly approach the issues. And then such a theology will hopefully be perceived accordingly by the bishops.

Question: In the autumn, the topic of the World Synod of Bishops is marriage and the family. What is to be expected in your view as you overlook the treatment of homosexuals in the church? And what would be desirable?
Goertz: To be realistic, perhaps, once again it can be stressed that homosexuals should not be discriminated against and criminalized and that they have their natural place in the church. This is globally considered an important message. Maybe it will finally also leave behind the old condemnations of homosexual acts. I think it is desirable that one searches even more within the Catholic Church for a direct dialogue with homosexuals and does not talk more over their heads away and give precipitate moral judgments. That would be a positive signal.

Question: Then perhaps the question would also be in the room, which is now being discussed already in politics, how far the marriage can be made equal with gay or lesbian partnerships.
Goertz: Different can be designated as separate, yet experience an equal consideration and respect. One might ask theologically whether a binding gay love affair that sees itself as a partnership in faith in the God of Israel and Jesus, possesses a sacramental character. Homosexual partnerships could then find church recognition.

Question: Could that one day also be done by external signs, or by a blessing of homosexual couples?

Goertz: Although I do not expect that this will be already on the synod agenda: I see no problem in principle theologically.

The moral theologian on far left with Cardinal Lehmann.

Source

Cardinal hits out at Latin Mass

Cardinal Karl Lehmann of Mainz has used the occasion of the "Eucharistic Congress" in Cologne to oppose propagating celebrations of the Latin Mass in the "Tridentine Rite". Lehmann defended the liturgical reform after the Second Vatican Council.

"I have the impression that the whole enthusiasm for the Latin has a lot to do with prestige and the false pretenses of a supposed cultural elite," Lehmann told the "Kölner Stadt-Anzeiger". Such motives made him rather skeptical, according to the Cardinal.

He defended the liturgical reform after the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965) as a "golden sovereign". In 1970 in Germany, the renewed liturgy of the Mass was introduced in German and the hitherto valid Tridentine rite abolished. This form is particularly appreciated by Catholic traditionalists. After a partial withdrawal of the ban under Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI. now a wider range of Masses in the old Rite are available, without the popularity increasing proportionately, explains Lehmann.

He considered "a stronger juxtaposition of both liturgical forms today not useful, as it has not grown from the grass roots" Lehmann said. "The trend is more in the direction of the renewed Mass." To the controversial revision the words of consecration in the Mass , which all the same wasordered by Benedict XVI, Lehmann said, "one has to wait for it for the time being and perhaps now tension can be removed from the whole issue."
Following the request of the former Pope, at the central point of the Mass, it does not sayany longer that the blood of Jesus was shed "for all" people but "for many." According to Lehmann, the dispute over the "for all" or "for many" was previously "under the spell of the question of whether Rome was far too attentive to the traditionalists . If you explain that God's will for salvation is for all people, the translation of the words of consecration no longer is a question of such great urgency and drama, "said the cardinal. As Pope Benedict XVI himself concedes both translations are theologically appropriate and legitimate (Cathcon- see below!) , "it is not entirely clear why then strictly only the one translation should be allowed." In addition, Lehmann called for an in-depth exchange on the phrase "for all": "'We are all going to heaven', is too simple." (Ksta)

This is the melodious but heretical popular song of 1952 to which the Cardinal refers- "We all get to heaven because we are so virtuous".



Earlier CathCon stories on the Cardinal-  his close encounter with the devil and taking to the stage with dancing girls

He was the Research Assistant of Karl Rahner, the most heretical of all the (post) Conciliar theologians and clearly some of the teaching of Father Rahner rubbed off.   Rahner even postulated the existence of anonymous Christians- psychologically helpful as he had a girlfriend who was a Communist with whom he could not be seen with in public but who he believed had a certain virtue.

Father Rahner sends 75th Birthday greetings to the old Nazi, Heidegger, whose tainted philosophy so inspired him that he begged his superiors to be sent to Heidegger's courses.

Source

Cardinal: "We have troubles in the Catholic Church"

Cardinal Lehmann participated in the election of a pope in Rome. In an ECHO interview he talks about, among other things,  reasons for the lack of priests and what has a mountain climb has to do with ecumenism 

ECHO: Cardinal Lehmann, one of your concerns is to promote ecumenism. Pope Benedict has disappointed many Catholics, because he has rejected categorically shared communion . Do you see a chance to change that now?

Karl Lehmann: The hope must not  be given up under any circumstances. But for us Catholics, the Eucharist is not shared at the beginning. It is the perfect destination. One must not forget that we have achieved a lot. I have experienced in my youth  that Protestant children were beaten up in predominantly Catholic villages because they were Protestant. And vice versa. That's unthinkable today, fortunately.

ECHO: Nevertheless, for many lay people the ecumenical movement is too slow.

Lehmann: For that I have a very great understanding. I like to compare this with a mountain climb. The last 200, 300 meters are very difficult - even if you have already achieved a lot, if you have arrived at this point. We are in this situation with ecumenism.

ECHO: The Catholic Church is suffering from a shortage of priests. Even some priests in the Diocese of Mainz must serve several communities. How do you counteract you?

Lehmann: Only human management of matters cannot help. We can do many things, but we can not produce young people who is willing to place a lifetime at the service at the church. We can still be in the Diocese of Mainz actually quite happy. Compared to other dioceses, we have more priests. But there is also a shortage. On the other hand you have to see, we have the deacons, we have pastoral assistants, we have the parish officials. That is: More than 1000 people.  We have far more people involved pastoral care as we've ever had. The problem is church services in the sense of Eucharistic celebrations.

ECHO: Are possible candidates frightened of celibacy?

Lehmann: Some hope to gain a lot if the celibacy requirement was lifted. I'm not convinced. It's not just the celibacy of priests, which keeps people away. We also have troubles in the church herself ...

ECHO: For example?

Lehmann: for example, the abuse scandals. And, do not forget: If someone wants to become a priest, he has a set path for his life. That's pretty strange for most people today.

ECHO: Not only the priest shortage is a problem. More and more people depart from the Christian churches.

Lehmann: Yes, that's true. But we are not alone. You have this in each political party, in sports clubs. In our pluralistic society, it is no longer so easy to have an authentic version of faith and to live.

ECHO: Cardinal Lehmann, the abuse of children and adolescents by Catholic priests has still not been properly dealt with. Last year, the church stopped  an independent investigation. How will things proceed now?

Lehmann: The story of the investigation so far was unhappy, as there was not enough co-ordination on which facts should be made ​​available, and whether those facts in the case of living persons should  be made ​​public. There are also questions of personal data protection. But we want to clarify further and do that too. We must not only think of the Research Institute in Hanover and to Professor Pfeiffer. We have already had more than ten years' experience with recognized guidelines for handling abuse cases. We have done, for example in schools, prevention work, we have rewarded many victims. Our diocese has agreed to evaluate all records dating back to 1945.

ECHO: At the end of 2012,  Father Hendrick Jolie priest in Darmstadt-Dieburg, made ​​headlines. He was active on the Internet portal kreuz.net which preached hatred of dissenters, homosexuals and against liberal clergy. They have warned him then that's it. If the case does it?

Lehmann: What should I have done more? Priests also have the freedom to express themselves and they have the opportunity to select a course in ecclesiastical politics.

ECHO: But it's the question of how and in what environment.

Lehmann: Father Kolie has apologized. I have as yet no reason to doubt that he has changed. I cannot talk on the one hand of reconciliation and reject on the other hand, the hand that reaches out. I myself have been so treated by kreuz.net over years and decades in a lousy maner. But I have rules about dealing with people. I'll even more "left" priests say things with which I disagree. This freedom must exist within the church.

ECHO: A liberal line ...

Lehmann: .., yes, that is a word ...

ECHO: ... which is often associated with you shortly ...

Lehmann: Yes. If liberal means complying with and granting freedom of expression thatis also fine. But freedom also includes obligation and responsibility, and - what concerns the Church - even obedience.

Source

Cardinal defends Pope from accusations of collaboration with the Argentine junta

The Bishop of Mainz Cardinal Karl Lehmann has defended Pope Francis from accusations of being too close to the then rulers in the period of military dictatorship in the period from 1976. It will often not sufficiently considered that Jorge Mario Bergoglio, the present Pope Francis, "then not as a bishop or even Cardinal agreed to church policy, but that he, as Provincial, had to and wanted to protect the people of his congregation and also other people", Lehmann said on Sunday in Mainz Cathedral.

At the Pontifical Mass in honor of the new Pope, Lehmann added Francis had "made great efforts to keep a middle line between the actual rescue of individuals, especially from the Order, and a contact with the authorities at the time of the dictatorship” "Pope Francis is through and through a pastorally caring priest," said Lehmann. He has strong foundations for this in his deep personal faith. The Pope knew "very well the Cross in the world and in everyone's life. Let him alone!" Lehmann concluded his sermon.

Source

For a contrast, the Cardinal's criticisms of Pope Benedict.

Cardinal Lehmann could not be happier with the election of the new Pope

His turbulent days are him behind: Cardinal Karl Lehmann, Bishop of Mainz. As one of six German representatives in the conclave he elected the new pope. Now he speaks to hr-iNFO "Conversation"- (Cathcon- when podcast available will extract any other key points)


First the resignation of the old pope, then the meeting at the Vatican for the election of the new head of the Catholic Church, including the surprising decision of Pope Francis, the first Pope from Latin America. Cardinal Karl Lehmann has just had some exciting day. Now he's back in Mainz, and answers the questions of hr-church editor Klaus Hofmeister and hr-iNFO-editor Oliver Günther. How did Cardinal Lehmann personally experience the past two weeks regarding the election of a pope? And what actually happens behind the scenes of a Conclave? Different rules apply here compared to politics: There is no official nomination of candidates, and campaign speeches are not provided. So how to find the right candidate? And how to organize majorities? But he looks not only back, but forward. What does Cardinal Lehmann expect from the new Pope, who he obviously thinks is a good choice? Finally he said shortly after the election of Pope Francis: "I am very happy, very happy."


Source Cardinal Kasper shares his joy.

Direct criticism of Pope Benedict from Cardinal

Cardinal Karl Lehmann of Mainz has expressed in an interview with FOCUS criticism of the resigned Pope Benedict XVI. It displeases him that Benedict himself at the request of the Cardinals did not say everything that he knows about the affair Vatileaks.

Cardinal Karl Lehmann of Mainz expects the new Pope Francis that he will take up with Catholics who in the past years "may have been disappointed" and who have to be won back. In an interview with FOCUS, Lehmann clearly distanced itself from the retired Pope Benedict XVI. An explanation of the Vatileaks affair had only been "partially" given to the Cardinals in the Conclave. The secret dossier on this affair, Benedict had finally reserved for his successor to read. In the Conclave, one the cardinals who had compiled the dossier, read out "quasi the communique of December, which everyone knew."

"Nobody answered our questions"
Lehmann told FOCUS:. "Thus, one had the impression that we ask questions, but no one answered them." On the question of whether the confidential report should be made ​​public, the Cardinal said , "It must be worked through." Francis should think about whether he wanted to change the approach of his predecessor, because it "could be misinterpreted." In the Vatileaks affairc confidential documents stolen from the desk of the pope were leaked to a journalist. Among others his valet, Paolo Gabriele, was found to be responsible.

Source

Two Cardinals delay announcement of start of the Conclave

The cardinals gathered in the Vatican preparing for the Papal election have not yet voted on a date for the beginning of the conclave. The Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi said Wednesday after the fourth so-called General Congregation. The meeting was attended by a total of 153 cardinals, including 113 of the 115 Cardinal electors.

Four newly arrived contributed Cardinals took their oath The preparation for the Pope at the Vatican cardinals gathered voted yet on a date for the beginning of the conclave. The Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi said Wednesday after the fourth so-called General Congregation. The meeting was attended by a total of 153 cardinals, including 113 of the approved 115 for Election.

Four newly arrived contributed Cardinals took their oath on Wednesday morning to observe the electoral law and secrecy. They were Mainz Cardinal Karl Lehmann (76), the Egyptian Antonios Naguib (77), John Tong Hon (73) from Hong Kong and the former Archbishop of Munich, Friedrich Wetter (85). Not yet arrived on Wednesday at noon were the Warsaw Cardinal Kazimierz Nycz (63) and his Vietnamese counterpart, Jean-Baptiste Pham Minh Man (79). Nycz would arrive in the afternoon, Pham Thursday only.

In eighteen five-minute speechesm the Cardinals discussed on Wednesday morning, according to Lombardi's statement, the situation of the Church in today's world and about the desired new evangelization. In addition, the participants had discussed the relationship of the Vatican Curia with the local churches. Finally, they talked on the profile and characteristics, which the new pope should have.

In the afternoon, the Cardinals gathered for a prayer meeting in the Vatican Basilica. On Thursday again for two conferences are planned, one in the morning and one in the late afternoon.


Source
How Cardinal Lehmann celebrates Mass- on an unspeakable pile of bricks in the fine Cathedral of Mainz.

Conclave- five of our cardinals are missing.

The Holy See Press Office confirmed today that, of the 115 Cardinal-Electors who will come to the Conclave, 5 have still not arrived to take part at the General Congregations: Cardinal Lehmann (Mainz), Cardinal Naguib (Alexandria Patriarch Emeritus), Cardinal Nycz (Warsaw), Cardinal Pham Minh Mân (Vietnam), Cardinal Tong Hon (Hong Kong).

Full story
Someone should tell Cardinal Lehmann it is Lent- no more carnival. He was never late for carnival. Just as long his fellow actor, the Devil, stays away.

Cardinal Naguib is not well and is making heroic efforts to attend.

Cardinal Nycz wanted to be present at Mass of thanksgiving of the Polish Episcopate for the pontificate of Benedict XVI and the intentions of the new Pope, which will be on Tuesday night be celebrated in the Cathedral of Warsaw. After the Eucharist, Cardinal Nycz will go in the evening to Rome. Source

Cardinal Tong Hon is a busy man by all accounts, which was the reason he did not say goodbye to Pope Benedict. Hope he has booked his tickets by now.

 Cathcon is busy tracking down the fifth Cardinal.....

 See Vatican insists all Cardinals must attend.

Cardinal expects longer Papal election than 2005

Following the resignation of Pope Benedict XVI Cardinal Karl Lehmann of Mainz expects no quick decision on a successor in the conclave. He was not a prophet, but the result will not perhaps be as swift as last time , said Lehmann of Mainz to the "Allgemeine Zeitung". The home country of the future pope is not a priority for Mainz Cardinal. Lehmann will himself participate in the conclave. After almost eight years now ends the pontificate of Pope Benedict XVI. In March, the Cardinals come together and appoint a successor to Benedict.

Source

Glove Puppet Cardinal

Source-Gloria.tv illustration for Cathcon story

Am trying to track down the evidence that the Bishops' Conference used to maintain that the morning-after pill is not an abortofaciant.

"Morning-after pill" - statement of German Bishops Conference in English

Moral theological issues related to rape ("morning-after pill ")
The Assembly in the light of current events considered the moral theological aspects
of the administration of the so-called "morning after" pill for women, who have fallen victim to rape.

Cardinal Karl Lehmann (Mainz) as chairman of the Doctrinal Commission of the German Bishops' Conference described the moral theological evaluation of the use of a so-called "morning after" pill on the basis of scientific knowledge about the availability of new medications with altered the mode of action.

Cardinal Joachim Meisner (Cologne) explained the background to his declaration of 31 January 2013, following the actual case of the turning away of a rape victim by two hospitals run by religious orders in Cologne, which he issued, in consultation with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Pontifical Academy for Life.

The Assembly reaffirms that women in Catholic hospitals, who are the victims of rape should, of course, receive human, medical, psychological and pastoral assistance.

This may include the administration of a "morning-after pill" insofar as it has a contraceptive and not an abortifacient effect.

Medical and pharmaceutical methods that cause the death of an embryo may not in the future be applied. The German bishops have confidence that in Catholic operated facilities the practical; treatment decision will be based on these moral theological requirements. In any case, the decision is to respect the woman concerned.

The Assembly recognizes the need, besides first comments on the "morning after pill" to examine in greater depth the wider context of the question - in contact with the person responsible in Rome - to discover and make the necessary distinctions. The bishops are in appropriate discussions with the leaders of the Catholic hospitals, with Catholic gynecologists and physicians, as well as with consultants.

Text in German See Foul Play by German Bishops

Red nose priest preaches carnival

Cardinal Lehmann- for many means for all

KATH.NET - Katholischer Nachrichtendienst

The new translation of the words for the consecration of the chalice in the Mass ordered by the Pope according to the Mainz Cardinal Karl Lehmann changes nothing.

The biblical texts leave no doubt that Jesus died for the salvation of all people, Lehmann said on Friday at the Catholic Congress in Mannheim. According to the Pope, Benedict XVI the words "for many" Are merely a more accurate translation of the passages that describe Jesus' words at the Last Supper.

The assumption of many theologians, that Jesus used an Aramaic word that meant the "for all", have been put in question by recent research. In this respect the new translation, "for many" at this point is actually more accurate. This change does not alter the fact that in many other places Jesus is shown to have sacrificed himself for all. On the recent rapprochement between the Vatican and the tradtionalist SSPX, Lehmann noted not that this could lead to the Second Vatican Council (1962 - 1965 ) being put into question. In order to defend the council, one must fight for its benefits, Lehmann said to the applause of many in the audience. He made similar comments at the same time to several nationwide Catholic media outlets.

Talking Tom Cat preaches at Carnival Mass

Hat tip Rorate Caeli- a liturgical abuse Cathcon missed!  Click on carnival to see some other horrors- not least in the ecclesiastical hierarchy, Cardinal Carnival Lehmann appearing on stage with the devil.

The Carnival Mass at the end of world

Big birthday party for Cardinal Lehmann in Mainz

Kardinal Karl Lehmann: Nicht immer ein Mann des Papstes | Echo Online - Nachrichten aus Südhessen

Catholic Church: The Mainz Cardinal Karl Lehmann is seventy five years old - the Diocese will celebrate in style on 22 May

Certainly, Karl Lehmann would know how to use his time differently. The Cardinal would have liked to dedicate his remaining years to theological studies. But the Pope decided otherwise.The Bishop of Mainz who next Monday will be seventy five years old, is required to remain in office. One consolation for Lehmann: The great Diocesan birthday party on 22 May in Mainz Cathedral will not now be a farewell party.

Lehmann, who was for over twenty years Chairman of the German Bishops' Conference, has dominated the Catholic Church in Germany in recent decades. His warm manner, treating others as equals, his openness to change and his courage in the repeated struggles with the Vatican to discover the limits of possible reforms have brought him high esteem with many in Catholic circles.

In Rome, however, the bishop of Mainz, who was appointed in 1983, with his moderate liberal, dialogue-oriented ways, has not made friends."Purple makes him uncomfortable," wrote a German newspaper, as Pope John Paul II made Lehmann a Cardinal quite late in the day in 2001.

Whether it was about the ecumenism close to Lehmann’s heart - the association with Protestant Christians - advising pregnant women, the prohibition of contraceptives or the exclusion of divorced and remarried Catholics from the sacraments - Lehmann has not always prevailed.

Originally from Sigmaringen in Baden-Wuerttemberg, the theologian, initially prior to his appointment as bishop, was a full professor dogmatics and ecumenical theology in Mainz, and then later in Freiburg. He is marked by the optimism of the Second Vatican Council (1962 to 1965). The decisions of the meeting convened by Pope John XXIII opened the Catholic Church to modernity.

Central were the cautious steps towards recognition of other religions and liturgical reform. From that time on, it became common for church services to be no longer in Latin, but to be celebrated in the respective national language, and the priest no longer turned his back on the faithful at the Mass , but he faced them. Lehmann witnessed at first hand the council as a consultant at the side of reforming theologian Karl Rahner.

Lehmann's reform hopes have not always met, but he has not given up the readiness to compromise and to balance over the years. "I'm not a guy who throws in the towel quickly," the bishop once said almost 20 years ago. That has not changed, although Lehmann must now preserve his powers. At seventy-five he is finally no longer a young man.

Cathcon- an interview will appear tomorrow about his relationship with Roman authority.

The Cardinal knows how to party

Muslim call to prayer from Catholic Church in Mainz

Call of the Muezzin from Church in Mainz

Loud cries of the muezzin, alternating with bell-ringing has stunned passersby in Mainz. The nationally unique sound installation "ON AIR" in the pedestrian zone will call for peaceful coexistence of Muslims and Christians, said the Berlin concept artist Miriam Kilali (44) on Friday. The growing resentment against Muslims was "the cause for this musical activity in the public space." The taped muezzin calls and bells were to be broadcast from loudspeakers on the roof of the St Anthony Chapel in the town centre of Mainz on Friday and Saturday at 10.00, 14.00 and 17.00 clock for six minutes.

The reactions of passers-by cannot be more different.
"This is a horror," complains a blonde in her forties. "They take away everything - but we were once a Catholic country." The Turk Asil Yenertürk (52), however, is delighted: "I get goose bumps. I feel at home, when I hear this." The 70-year-old Johanna Demhardt is reminded of a trip to Singapore: "Where I have recently heard this sound. Here in Mainz, it's just not quite right." The Arab-Nile-Rhine-club as co-organiser has distributed explanatory leaflets so that the event is better understood. "The keys to a peaceful coexistence: respect, understanding, openness, tolerance, trust. You also have this key. It will open many doors," it says about the event. So what do people think? The artist Kilali will interview people to document their reactions.

She likes to explain her motives in detail: "The worsening of the emotionally heavy debate about the construction of mosques in Europe, the headscarf issue, the indiscriminate suspicion of terrorism on the one side - hostility and exclusion of Christians by Muslims in Arab countries on the other hand, are the occasion for " On Air ". The Arab-Nile-Rhine Chairman Samy El Hagrasy is enthusiastic: "Sadly, we don’t get so many people attending our info-evenings. If we publicise this art project, many more people become aware. "

Creating political art beyond museums and galleries, including the people is important for Kilali. A year ago in Berlin, they made the" most beautiful homeless shelter in the world "decorated with stucco and chandeliers. The old building was restored with the help of the residents. Two years earlier, Kilali had also converted an emergency shelter in Moscow.

And why now in the Rhineland-Palatinate state capital? Mainz is one of the oldest German dioceses, answers Kilali. And the Bishop, Cardinal Karl Lehmann, was "very open to dialogue between religions". Not least, the Berlin artist who was baptized Catholic, has lived for some ten years in Mainz.

Of course, they have registered their art project officially, with the church, as well as with the public authorities, Kilali further continues. "But that it included calls from the muezzin, was not previously known by anyone, including Cardinal Lehmann." Michael Baunack, the priest of the St Anthony Chapel, looks at his old-fashioned pocket watch with chain: no way will he give anything on Kilalis interplay of religious symbolism. "It is not normal. But perhaps we need to get used to the idea that we need a different dialogue. It's about shared responsibility and not propaganda against each other."

Let's apply the principles of the French Revolution to the Latin Mass

Liberty for the Latin Mass.

Equality between the "extraordinary" and "ordinary" forms- putting to one side that the extraordinary form is in a superior class of its own.

Fraternity directed towards those that seek to attend or celebrate the Latin Mass.

There again perhaps more Faith, Hope and Charity should be preferred to all things and charity above everything.

If Cardinal Lehmann wants to live the principles of the French Revolution, he should give greater mind to the consequences.

Edmund Burke responds to Cardinal Lehmann

The Cardinal complained that some members of the SSPX did not wish to be reconciled to the principles of the French Revolution.

It is now sixteen or seventeen years since I saw the queen of France, then the dauphiness, at Versailles; and surely never lighted on this orb, which she hardly seemed to touch, a more delightful vision. I saw her just above the horizon, decorating and cheering the elevated sphere she had just begun to move in, glittering like the morning star full of life and splendor and joy. 0h, what a revolution! and what a heart must I have, to contemplate without emotion that elevation and that fall! Little did I dream, when she added titles of veneration to those of enthusiastic, distant, respectful love, that she should ever be obliged to carry the sharp antidote against disgrace concealed in that bosom; little did I dream that I should have lived to see such disasters fallen upon her, in a nation of gallant men, in a nation of men of honor, and of cavaliers! I thought ten thousand swords must have leaped from their scabbards, to avenge even a look that threatened her with insult.

But the age of chivalry is gone; that of sophisters, economists, and calculators has succeeded, and the glory of Europe is extinguished forever. Never, never more, shall we behold that generous loyalty to rank and sex, that proud submission, that dignified obedience, that subordination of the heart, which kept alive, even in servitude itself, the spirit of an exalted freedom! The unbought grace of life, the cheap defense of nations, the nurse of manly sentiment and heroic enterprise is gone. It is gone, that sensibility of principle, that chastity of honor, which felt a stain like a wound, which inspired courage whilst it mitigated ferocity, which ennobled whatever it touched, and under which vice itself lost half its evil, by losing all its grossness.

Edmund Burke - 1793

And an account of her execution

But the people took good care that Marie Antoinette should not carry this one drop of comfort to the end of her journey. The populace thronged around the car, howled, groaned, sang ribald songs, clapped their hands, and pointed their fingers in derision at Madame Veto.

The queen, however, remained calm, her gaze wandering coldly over the vast multitude; only once did her eye flash on the route. It was as she passed the Palais Royal, where Philippe Egalite, once the Duke d'Orleans, lived, and read the inscription which he had caused to be placed over the main entrance of the palace.

At noon the car reached its destination. It came to a halt at the foot of the scaffold; Marie Antoinette dismounted, and then walked slowly and with erect head up the steps.

Not once during her dreadful ride had her lips opened, not a complaint had escaped her, not a farewell had she spoken. The only adieu which she had to give on earth was a look--one long, sad look- -directed toward the Tuileries; and as she gazed at the great pile her cheeks grew paler, and a deep sigh escaped from her lips.

Then she placed her head under the guillotine,--a momentary, breathless silence followed.

Samson lifted up the pale head that had once belonged to the Queen of France, and the people greeted the sight with the cry, "Long live the republic!"

That same evening one of the officials of the republic made up an account, now preserved in the Imperial Library of Paris, and which must move even the historian himself to tears. It runs as follows:

"Cost of interments, conducted by Joly, sexton of Madelaine de la Ville l'Eveque, of persons condemned by the Tribunal of the
Committee of Safety, to wit, No. 1 . . . ." Then follow twenty-four
names and numbers, and then "No. 25. Widow Capet:

For the coffin, . . . . . . . . . . . . .6 francs.
For digging the grave,. . . . . . . . . 25 francs."

Beneath are the words, "Seen and approved by me, President of the Revolutionary Tribunal, that Joly, sexton of the Madelaine, receive the sum of two hundred and sixty-four francs from the National Treasury, Paris, llth Brumaire. Year II. of the French Republic.
Herman, President."

The interment of the Queen of France did not cost the republic more than thirty-one francs, or six American dollars.

And this is how they treated her son. So much for the principles of the French Revolution which made the civilised nation of France complicit in vile crimes.

And the Cardinal chooses to forget the death marches of the Vendee

Cardinal Lehmann unhelpful to the SSPX

Kardinal Karl Lehmann im Interview: "Wir sollten nicht so kleinkariert sein"

- We should not be so small minded.
.....
But in economically hard times, the tendency grows to save by not paying church tax.

It is correct that for example the new withholding tax has led to people leaving the church- partly due to the bad information policy of the banks. But defections from the church also have many other reasons. The controversy over the SSPX, for example, has hurt us a lot. Then many people leave with a prior long history of estrangement behind them. Often a really bad experience is enough for them to take the final step and turn away. That's why I think it is so important that we take care of the "faithful who are distanced from the Church" and express our appreciation for them, as I do it at the end of each year.

.....
Did you once explain to the Protestant from the east (Angela Merkel, German Chancellor, daughter of Protestant minister) after her criticism of the Pope’s handling the SSPX, how one should behave with respect to the Pope? 

No, I would also never do. I think the SSPX matter has been politicised. The Pope must never - not even by the Chancellor – have it explained to him that anti-Semitism is reprehensible. This is so clear that that from my side did not take part the debate. I am annoyed only - but not relative to the Chancellor - about if for some politicians on the Roman visit kippers, bows could not be deep enough, the carpets not thick enough and the tapestries not fine enough to home but at home they have no problem loudly cursing the Pope.

......
Within the church the conflict with the SSPX is in no way resolved. In early summer, the community has illicitly ordained priests. That Rome cannot put up with 

Basically, I think exactly the same. On one hand I understand the Pope very well that he responded to the repeated requests for reconciliation by the SSPX. He is obliged to do this as the supreme shepherd of the Church. But on the other hand the SSPX must not repeat their provocations in word and deed.

They do this all the time.

One should distinguish. The SSPX is highly fragmented, a catchall for all kinds of disappointed and frustrated people: Some do not come to terms with modernity, others not with the French Revolution, the next with freedom of religion, still others with the liturgical reforms of the 1960s. Some of them will be able to be won back. But there are the unteachable - as the case of Holocaust denier Richard Williamson shows. For them, there is only one form. Perhaps we should have made quicker and clearer distinctions

and then excommunicate such people again?

This is already noteworthy: In today's world, there is nothing so dark and backward as the excommunication. But when certain people like the SSPX do not fit into the scheme, the call for excommunication surely comes. Then suddenly, a new Inquisition, which is not so bad after all. This is not generally my style. If the SSPX continue to behave foolishly and play around with the Pope and the Curia, should we really say that they do not belong to our community. But surely not simply with the old instruments.

Other highlights from the interview a bit later!

kreuz.net describes the interview as a torpedo against the will of the Pope for reconciliation.